Ramsay, books. WTF happened??

Sorry, I seem to keep on putting these threads in the wrong place. But I was looking for 'book-specific' and somehow missed that the other sub-forum dealt especially with *character discussion*, which is what this is.

Oh, I am making a terrible mess of things. :/

Good point. I do tend to think that whoever played a large part in raising Ramsay in his earliest years must have been a very bad influence in some awful way (I tend to believe in a combination of nature and nurture and will prob make a separate post about that as it pertains to GoT characters), because I believe Reek came to him when he was a bit older, like 12? And Psychological studies have shown that the first 5 years of a child's life are the 'formative years' that basically determine largely what direction the child will go in as they grow up.

There is also something to be said for genetics though, you are right. Certain kinds of madness are shown to be hereditary. And certain temperaments, personality types, talents, etc.

I think to get a person like Ramsay Bolton there must have been the combination of ALL the worst things.

"The Perfect Storm" of a human being, perhaps?

There have been other fictional characters and real-life people like this, so of course he's not the 'golden standard' for villainy or anything, no one person could be. But yes, I think he would fall into a category of what I am now thinking of as Perfect Storm villains, because everything that could have gone wrong did, and whatever world (fictional or otherwise) this individual was born into would reap the hellish consequences.

So: Sad, scary, or just so sexay, we get to choose how we take the guy as he is. Ha ha ha!

I <3 him so much, myself, as I think most of us here do.

Although he would for sure flay me, among other horrible things, I know... *shudder* I have the sense to be glad I don't personally know him. Yayyy for safety! *claps and cheers*

Ha ha ha! Yes, indeed. It usually does mean a person at least has some strong interest in the more dark and morbid things of life if we are so enthusiastic about such.. morbid stories and characters. Sometimes, of course, we are actually fucked up too, lol.

I have found through my years of exploring various fandoms though that people who are very active in any particular fandom where a lot of character discussion happens (especially as they center around the more villainous or anti-hero type characters), those people tend to just enjoy analyzing characters that they perceive are very layered and complex and that they also sometimes happen to relate to in some way, either directly or indirectly (usually the latter).

With characters as extreme as Ramsasy Bolton (or to throw another one out there from a different fandom, Dr. Hannibal Lecter--"Hannibal the Cannibal") though, it does seem to say something about our emotional/psychological states. Perhaps we work through issues with characters like these, as well as just taking an intellectual interest in them.

Cuz yah, let's face it... Ramsay would flay us all alive.

Oooouuuch!! LIVING NIGHTMARE... that hopefully does have an end, unlike Reek's case. :/  lol!!

I agree to a point on the whole nurture not nature idea.

Roose's idea of "bad blood comes from the rape" is just his own obsession with blood and cleansing it. Rape does not cause psychopathic children, and blood has nothing to do with character.

However, I believe that Ramsay was born already messed up. Before he met Reek I, his mother had so much trouble with him that she asked for help from her rapist, as malreve pointed out in another thread. He probably was already mentally ill, with violent behavior and a sadistic streak. He didn't need an abusive mother to get to that point, just one who couldn't assert her authority. She saw that her kid was messed up, but instead of putting a stop to that shit, went to see Roose saying "Well, I can't handle him, need someone else to do it". Then Reek came along and basically gave Ramsay a high-five, and was a grade-A enabler. However, I think than even before that, he would have tormented any kid he came across.

In the end though, Ramsay truly becomes a monster when he believes himself entitled to everything, and that is his mother's and Reek's thought. He is mostly guided by "I am a Lord, I can do what I want" and "Look at how much of a Lord I am". Had he stayed a peasant, he would not have any reason to feed his ego and believe himself superior. Also, he wouldn't have the resources to do most of the things he does, which would have also helped.