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Post by malreve on Jul 18, 2014 4:11:01 GMT -5
I have read a lot of fic where it just talks about Reek experiencing a mix of pleasure but mostly pain that makes him nervous when Ramsay touches his scar. I have just started the books but I've seen everything of the TV show so far and as far as I know, Ramsay removed Theon's penis but not his testicles. There is a wikipedia article that addresses the entire issue of Penis removal (which I post below) but I was interested in specifically what kind of sexual sensation and/or desire Reek would have left. I found some information in that article that helped to clarify. The article on: Penis RemovalThe section in it that addresses sexual sensations that men who have suffered this is at the very end under the heading "Treatment and effects of penis removal". I will just paste the entire section in here because I think it explains largely what is probably going on with our dear Reek whenever Ramsay decides to tease or use him:
"Severing the penis without removing the testicles causes intense sexual frustration, since sexual urges and drive originate from the testicles but with no penis there is no way to satisfy them.[citation needed]It is unclear because of the reluctance of victims of penis removal who have undergone penis reconstruction surgery to go to checkups, but acute pain when sitting on a bicycle saddle or other similar surfaces (and perhaps other activities that put much weight on the crotch area) may persist for a long period of time after the surgery, or even permanently.[36]
A study of penis reattachment in China found that in a group of 50 men, all but one reacquired functionality, even though some involved full reconstructive surgery using tissue and bone. Reportedly some of these men later fathered children.[46]
If reattachment is not an option, doctors can reconstruct a penis from muscle and skin grafted from another part of the body like the forearm. However, a penile implant is needed for an erection to be possible, the reconstructed penis would look strange and would either not be able to ejaculate,[47][48] or ejaculate with less force.[49] The patients are often dissatisfied with the reconstructed penis.[50] Standing during urination is an advantage offered by a reconstructed penis.[51] If penis reconstruction is not done, the patient will have to squat in order to urinate since doctors reroute the entrance of the urethra to below the scrotum.[47]
Various methods used by women to prevent reattachment of the penis after severing include flushing them down the toilet, feeding them to animals like ducks or dogs, boiling them in water, contaminating the penis with dirt or sand, and grinding the penis in a garbage disposal or a kitchen blender.[52][53]"The first paragraph of course contained the most pertinent information.  So please do correct me if I'm wrong since I have not gotten through the books yet, but it never actually said Theon was castrated, right? This is something different and suggests that he could still feel extreme desire and just be unable to attain the kind of release that he's used to and feels that he needs, which Ramsay would probably know very well through his time spent perfecting torture, and it was probably designed to be yet another form of torture. Endless, intense sexual frustration. I'd love to hear thoughts on this. |
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Post by lovelyladybones on Aug 23, 2014 9:34:51 GMT -5
That would make sense because you know that Ramsay knew EXACTLY what he was doing, he never does anything by accident.
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Post by malreve on Sept 8, 2014 17:23:03 GMT -5
That would make sense because you know that Ramsay knew EXACTLY what he was doing, he never does anything by accident. Exactly my thoughts. Yet more endless torture for Reek. In every conceivable way. Ramsay is scary... O.O (I have been exploring the idea of Reek finding a different kind of sexual release, unexpected by either himself or Ramsay, through some kind of emotional 'permission' or comfort somehow, though. I'd love to hear further thoughts on this because I notice a couple other Thramsay-writers have tried their hand at something similar, and it doesn't necessarily have to be medically inaccurate if done the right way.) |
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hauntedpoem
New Member
...because I am no man that I am alive; and I am no dog, I am a wolf...
Posts: 22
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Post by hauntedpoem on Sept 16, 2014 14:01:51 GMT -5
--
Various methods used by women to prevent reattachment of the penis after severing include flushing them down the toilet, feeding them to animals like ducks or dogs, boiling them in water, contaminating the penis with dirt or sand, and grinding the penis in a garbage disposal or a kitchen blender.[52][53]"-- I'd love to hear thoughts on this. Wikipedia, unreliable source (and that fragment about women flushing penises down toilets kind of...  made me puke in my mouth a bit). My opinion... oh, yes... Ramsay knew what he was doing. I can't seem to find any compatibility between what's in the fics and the info you provided for us. However, it is a monstrous and mutilating act. I still try and ignore most of the canon things for the sake of my sanity...  Ignorance is bliss. |
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Post by malreve on Sept 16, 2014 16:13:11 GMT -5
--
Various methods used by women to prevent reattachment of the penis after severing include flushing them down the toilet, feeding them to animals like ducks or dogs, boiling them in water, contaminating the penis with dirt or sand, and grinding the penis in a garbage disposal or a kitchen blender.[52][53]"-- I'd love to hear thoughts on this. Wikipedia, unreliable source (and that fragment about women flushing penises down toilets kind of... made me puke in my mouth a bit). My opinion... oh, yes... Ramsay knew what he was doing. I can't seem to find any compatibility between what's in the fics and the info you provided for us. However, it is a monstrous and mutilating act. I still try and ignore most of the canon things for the sake of my sanity... Ignorance is bliss. Yes, Wikipedia is generally unreliable, but when they cite extensive sources it is good. If there is anything in particular nagging at you about that I'd be interested to know of it more specifically. XD Did you mean to say compatibility or *in*compatibility? If not the latter then I'm not sure what you meant. And yes, it is truly a monstrous act that I find outraging. It is so demeaning as well as violating and torturous. It is a clear statement made about what is thought of masculinity as a whole--and surely that view is warped, to think that men can offer nothing good but will only give pain and humiliation to women? If that is true of some men, then it is certainly not true of all, or even most. Those who would choose to believe otherwise so often live in a world of pain... While I can relate to them I also understand that continuing to exist there and never venturing beyond those carefully drawn boundaries is usually a choice, to isolate oneself and therefore embrace pain, and then anger and everything else that comes with it. A miserable existence, but so often we choose our misery. "Ignore most of the canon things..." So most canon things in this context would mean that you prefer not to think of Theon's 'castration'? If I have misunderstood anything then please do correct me. Thank you so much for engaging me in the discussion although the topic was not pleasant. |
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hauntedpoem
New Member
...because I am no man that I am alive; and I am no dog, I am a wolf...
Posts: 22
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Post by hauntedpoem on Sept 17, 2014 14:00:05 GMT -5
oh... the "compatibility thing" (I can't even remember what I wanted to say, sorry) I think that most fic writers want to ignore the castration and replace it with something else. There is no compatibility because most people choose to ignore the whole castration part, they don't mention anything about the pain (in your wikipedia excerpt), the frustration. I said most people, not all of them (and it depends on the fics you read, also).
There is an Asian movie " In the realm of the senses" (1976) by the Japanese director Nagisa Oshima, which tells the story of Sada Abe, a woman who castrates her lover because of jealousy. I think he died because of it...? In case you are interested, you could watch it.
Also... there is nothing quite clear in the books about Theon's penis. I mean... it's nothing explicit. GRRM doesn't just write " and then, Ramsay cuts off Greyjoy's penis". It just says that Theon is not even a man, is less... a dog probably? Maybe that was a way of saying that he was mutilated but in a less straightforward way. The show is more explicit.
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Post by pinselohr on Sept 19, 2014 8:57:07 GMT -5
I´m really not sure, the more I read about it, the less I know what I think happened.
I read the books in german and I can remember one phrase where reek says to himself while thinking about his lost fingers "... and the other finger" and from that moment it was clear to me it´s his penis... I mean what could another FINGER mean beside that part? so the reason we don´t read clearly about it may be the fact that he wants to forget it? to suppress it (since we only know what happens through reeks thought and sight). But I heard in the original version it´s only "the thing" or?
Sooo there was also a discussion, or better a theory about that he was not castrated but only circumcised yep... because the wound would be too big and would get infected... well... that may be true without any medical treatment, still it´s not completely impossible for me. I personally often wonder how long reek survived all this without dying or get seriously sick??? I mean losing so many fingers and toes, the infection rate is always high in that environment.
My personally opinion is: he lost his penis (but still has the balls), just because ramsay really likes to torture his victims ESPECIALLY through sexual abuse and to make sure he cannot have heirs.
also he flays first and then cuts it off when the victim begs for it... maybe he even circumcised him before?
as much to that... but for the left sexual desire... huuu? what? When I was fresh in that fandom and started shipping thramsay (just this years... I was a bit late with the books <___<) I read a few personal experiences from people who lost their penis in an accident or whatever... and of course you can still get satisfied. One described he can have an orgasm by pulling his balls down or maybe the easiest way through anal penetration.
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Post by malreve on Sept 23, 2014 21:41:41 GMT -5
oh... the "compatibility thing" (I can't even remember what I wanted to say, sorry) I think that most fic writers want to ignore the castration and replace it with something else. There is no compatibility because most people choose to ignore the whole castration part, they don't mention anything about the pain (in your wikipedia excerpt), the frustration. I said most people, not all of them (and it depends on the fics you read, also). There is an Asian movie " In the realm of the senses" (1976) by the Japanese director Nagisa Oshima, which tells the story of Sada Abe, a woman who castrates her lover because of jealousy. I think he died because of it...? In case you are interested, you could watch it. Also... there is nothing quite clear in the books about Theon's penis. I mean... it's nothing explicit. GRRM doesn't just write " and then, Ramsay cuts off Greyjoy's penis". It just says that Theon is not even a man, is less... a dog probably? Maybe that was a way of saying that he was mutilated but in a less straightforward way. The show is more explicit. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for the rec! lol, yah... The show pulled out all of the stops for everything, right? So awesome.  |
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Post by malreve on Sept 23, 2014 21:50:40 GMT -5
I´m really not sure, the more I read about it, the less I know what I think happened. I read the books in german and I can remember one phrase where reek says to himself while thinking about his lost fingers "... and the other finger" and from that moment it was clear to me it´s his penis... I mean what could another FINGER mean beside that part? so the reason we don´t read clearly about it may be the fact that he wants to forget it? to suppress it (since we only know what happens through reeks thought and sight). But I heard in the original version it´s only "the thing" or? Sooo there was also a discussion, or better a theory about that he was not castrated but only circumcised yep... because the wound would be too big and would get infected... well... that may be true without any medical treatment, still it´s not completely impossible for me. I personally often wonder how long reek survived all this without dying or get seriously sick??? I mean losing so many fingers and toes, the infection rate is always high in that environment. My personally opinion is: he lost his penis (but still has the balls), just because ramsay really likes to torture his victims ESPECIALLY through sexual abuse and to make sure he cannot have heirs. also he flays first and then cuts it off when the victim begs for it... maybe he even circumcised him before? as much to that... but for the left sexual desire... huuu? what? When I was fresh in that fandom and started shipping thramsay (just this years... I was a bit late with the books <___<) I read a few personal experiences from people who lost their penis in an accident or whatever... and of course you can still get satisfied. One described he can have an orgasm by pulling his balls down or maybe the easiest way through anal penetration. Yes, I think the translation and people's own perceptions probably influence what I suppose would be called canon, and what you said about the phrase in the German version... "the other finger" I have to agree with your deduction there. As for infections, well... In GoT world it seems like they have healers pretty on top of that stuff, even if there's some magic involved in certain instances. And considering how obsessed Ramsay is with Reek I imagine he'd be sending his pet off to the maester after spending any 'special' kind of time with him, even if it's just to have him sent back without any pain relief but the clear reassurance "He's not getting infected". LOL. Reek's environment is... Ramsay.  I agree also with your opinion of what likely happened with the 'castration'. And I really appreciate you giving that info, that is very useful to know (although I admit it makes me wince to think of the maimed guys who are talking about these painful real-life experiences... kudos to them for being so brave and open with something so personal and upsetting--probably triggering to them in many cases). Any chance that you have links to some of those testimonies? I'm a perfectionist when it comes to writing so any and all research sources, no matter how unsettling, are something I try to keep track of. Thank you, I feel like I learned a lot and have a lot to think about from what you posted! |
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Post by pinselohr on Sept 24, 2014 13:46:27 GMT -5
As for infections, well... In GoT world it seems like they have healers pretty on top of that stuff, even if there's some magic involved in certain instances. And considering how obsessed Ramsay is with Reek I imagine he'd be sending his pet off to the maester after spending any 'special' kind of time with him, even if it's just to have him sent back without any pain relief but the clear reassurance "He's not getting infected". LOL. Reek's environment is... Ramsay. I agree also with your opinion of what likely happened with the 'castration'. And I really appreciate you giving that info, that is very useful to know (although I admit it makes me wince to think of the maimed guys who are talking about these painful real-life experiences... kudos to them for being so brave and open with something so personal and upsetting--probably triggering to them in many cases). Any chance that you have links to some of those testimonies? I'm a perfectionist when it comes to writing so any and all research sources, no matter how unsettling, are something I try to keep track of. Thank you, I feel like I learned a lot and have a lot to think about from what you posted! Yea he made sure he didn´t die I researched in german since it´s my native language, maybe you can still get the infos with translation . so here a guy is literally asking how he can reach an orgasm; penis is off but everything else still there (testicles). There´s also talk of a "sex pump" you know... the ones you also use for your pussy ö.ö www.med1.de/Forum/Urologie/48946/here´s the topic about amputation because of cancer www.gesundheitsfrage.net/frage/wie-geht-das-leben-nach-peniskrebs-op-weiterAnd here is someone asking if he can still ejaculate (I was so curious and I´m so glad I found that!!!!) www.chirurgie-portal.de/forum/urologie/penisteilamputation/1.htmloh and in the case he also lost his testicles www.krebs-kompass.org/Forum/showthread.php?t=58493 |
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Post by malreve on Sept 24, 2014 23:18:06 GMT -5
As for infections, well... In GoT world it seems like they have healers pretty on top of that stuff, even if there's some magic involved in certain instances. And considering how obsessed Ramsay is with Reek I imagine he'd be sending his pet off to the maester after spending any 'special' kind of time with him, even if it's just to have him sent back without any pain relief but the clear reassurance "He's not getting infected". LOL. Reek's environment is... Ramsay. I agree also with your opinion of what likely happened with the 'castration'. And I really appreciate you giving that info, that is very useful to know (although I admit it makes me wince to think of the maimed guys who are talking about these painful real-life experiences... kudos to them for being so brave and open with something so personal and upsetting--probably triggering to them in many cases). Any chance that you have links to some of those testimonies? I'm a perfectionist when it comes to writing so any and all research sources, no matter how unsettling, are something I try to keep track of. Thank you, I feel like I learned a lot and have a lot to think about from what you posted! Yea he made sure he didn´t die I researched in german since it´s my native language, maybe you can still get the infos with translation . so here a guy is literally asking how he can reach an orgasm; penis is off but everything else still there (testicles). There´s also talk of a "sex pump" you know... the ones you also use for your pussy ö.ö www.med1.de/Forum/Urologie/48946/here´s the topic about amputation because of cancer www.gesundheitsfrage.net/frage/wie-geht-das-leben-nach-peniskrebs-op-weiterAnd here is someone asking if he can still ejaculate (I was so curious and I´m so glad I found that!!!!) www.chirurgie-portal.de/forum/urologie/penisteilamputation/1.htmloh and in the case he also lost his testicles www.krebs-kompass.org/Forum/showthread.php?t=58493Thank you!!! So much love! <3 This will all be fascinating to read and maybe I will be back with more to say in a couple of days, ha ha (some brief travels and time away from internet must happen but it won't be too long so that's good XD ). I really appreciate how you went of your way to look up the sources for me, that was so kind of you. |
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Post by ironsalt on Oct 3, 2014 0:55:09 GMT -5
As for infections, well... In GoT world it seems like they have healers pretty on top of that stuff, even if there's some magic involved in certain instances. And considering how obsessed Ramsay is with Reek I imagine he'd be sending his pet off to the maester after spending any 'special' kind of time with him, even if it's just to have him sent back without any pain relief but the clear reassurance "He's not getting infected". LOL. Reek's environment is... Ramsay. I agree also with your opinion of what likely happened with the 'castration'. And I really appreciate you giving that info, that is very useful to know (although I admit it makes me wince to think of the maimed guys who are talking about these painful real-life experiences... kudos to them for being so brave and open with something so personal and upsetting--probably triggering to them in many cases). Any chance that you have links to some of those testimonies? I'm a perfectionist when it comes to writing so any and all research sources, no matter how unsettling, are something I try to keep track of. Thank you, I feel like I learned a lot and have a lot to think about from what you posted! Yea he made sure he didn´t die I researched in german since it´s my native language, maybe you can still get the infos with translation . so here a guy is literally asking how he can reach an orgasm; penis is off but everything else still there (testicles). There´s also talk of a "sex pump" you know... the ones you also use for your pussy ö.ö www.med1.de/Forum/Urologie/48946/here´s the topic about amputation because of cancer www.gesundheitsfrage.net/frage/wie-geht-das-leben-nach-peniskrebs-op-weiterAnd here is someone asking if he can still ejaculate (I was so curious and I´m so glad I found that!!!!) www.chirurgie-portal.de/forum/urologie/penisteilamputation/1.htmloh and in the case he also lost his testicles www.krebs-kompass.org/Forum/showthread.php?t=58493I'm going to read these, but I'll need to translate them first. I'm just curious even not for thramsay factor. |
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Post by malreve on Oct 3, 2014 21:15:03 GMT -5
I'm going to read these, but I'll need to translate them first. I'm just curious even not for thramsay factor. It is morbidly interesting for sure. I may be a bit behind you on that task as I'm trying to catch up with some things in real life--I don't balance fiction and reality so well, ha ha. *blush* ...So if you are able to get good translations would you mind saving copies and sharing them with me? Only if it doesn't put you to trouble though, I don't wish to be a bother. I say thank you, regardless of your decision on that matter. |
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Post by ironsalt on Oct 3, 2014 22:44:07 GMT -5
I'm going to read these, but I'll need to translate them first. I'm just curious even not for thramsay factor. It is morbidly interesting for sure. I may be a bit behind you on that task as I'm trying to catch up with some things in real life--I don't balance fiction and reality so well, ha ha. *blush* ...So if you are able to get good translations would you mind saving copies and sharing them with me? Only if it doesn't put you to trouble though, I don't wish to be a bother. I say thank you, regardless of your decision on that matter. Yes a morbid curiosity.. and just yesterday not long after I left the above comment here, I came upon some first experience account from some anon on the net about the subject and the anon guy wrote that he could reach the climax but it had to be via other ways rather than those direct stimulations to one's genitals as both his penis and testes were removed. He also said that he'd experienced the weight gain and his voice now is a bit higher pitched than it used to be, less muscle tones, etc. I'd love to share the translations were I be able to do the job! but.. I was just going to put the urls into google translate page lol.. from German to English.. as I don't speak German and English isn't my native language.. think the page would work fairly well as both languages share so many similar traits? |
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Post by malreve on Oct 17, 2014 21:14:36 GMT -5
It is morbidly interesting for sure. I may be a bit behind you on that task as I'm trying to catch up with some things in real life--I don't balance fiction and reality so well, ha ha. *blush* ...So if you are able to get good translations would you mind saving copies and sharing them with me? Only if it doesn't put you to trouble though, I don't wish to be a bother. I say thank you, regardless of your decision on that matter. Yes a morbid curiosity.. and just yesterday not long after I left the above comment here, I came upon some first experience account from some anon on the net about the subject and the anon guy wrote that he could reach the climax but it had to be via other ways rather than those direct stimulations to one's genitals as both his penis and testes were removed. He also said that he'd experienced the weight gain and his voice now is a bit higher pitched than it used to be, less muscle tones, etc. I'd love to share the translations were I be able to do the job! but.. I was just going to put the urls into google translate page lol.. from German to English.. as I don't speak German and English isn't my native language.. think the page would work fairly well as both languages share so many similar traits? Very interesting info you got from the convo with the anonymous guy, thank you for sharing that. And lol, I think it may get the job done even if it's not the ideal way we would do it. Seems workable, ha ha. I wish you well... and myself, when I am able to get around to it. LOL XD |
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made me puke in my mouth a bit). My opinion... oh, yes... Ramsay knew what he was doing. I can't seem to find any compatibility between what's in the fics and the info you provided for us. However, it is a monstrous and mutilating act. I still try and ignore most of the canon things for the sake of my sanity... 
Ignorance is bliss.
